Episode 021: Christine Frohnert
Show Notes
This week on the show we chat with an art conservator who has been pivotal in formalizing the field of time-based media conservation over the past two decades: Christine Frohnert. When Christine immigrated to the US in 2005 she was the only conservator who had training in time-based media conservation – and she got to work quickly! Through her private practice with partner Reinhard Bek, her leadership in the American Institute for Conservation’s Electronic Media Group, and her work as a passionate educator, Christine has made a lasting impact on the field of time-based media conservation. Tune in to this week’s show to hear her story!
Links from the conversation with Christine
> American Institute for Conservation Electronic Media Group
> Bek and Frohnert
> Conservation Center at NYU’s IFA
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Ben: From Small Data Industries, this is Art and Obsolescence. I'm your host, Ben Fino-Radin and on this show, I chat with people that are shaping the past present and future of art and technology. This week on the show, I'm chatting with a very special conservator.
[00:00:16] Christine: My name is Christine Frohnert I'm a conservator of contemporary art and most specifically specializing in time-based media art.
[00:00:23] Ben: Christine has been passionately working in time-based media art since the late nineties and when she immigrated to the US in 2005. She became the first time-based media art conservator in the US who really had training specifically in this stuff, because back then there weren't training programs for it in the US. Not only was Christine pioneering timepiece, mini conservation practice, but she would later go on to teach at NYU and with her colleagues there established the first time-based media specialization within an art conservation program and we heard from one of the first students of this program in episode 17, with sasha arden. Now I don't mean to overplay the importance of these first as we'll hear from Christine herself in today's chat the work of learning in time-based media conservation is quite simply perpetual. There's always new challenges emerging and to be a time-based media conservator requires a passion for constant learning and collaboration.
Now a lot of you tuning in are new here and this might be the first episode you're hearing where we're speaking with a conservator. So I thought who better to give us a basic introduction to what time-based media conservators do than an educator like Christine. So before we really get started, here's Christine's concise crash course to ease us into the work of time-based media conservation.
[00:01:37] Christine: Time-based media art refers to artworks that have a durational element that unfolds to the viewer over time and is mediated through technology such as film slide, video software, the internet or even performance. So as time-based media conservators, we are often really diving into research to understand those works and the work defining properties as Pip Laurenson coined it. An analogy that I like to use for my students is imagine you receive a loan request for a painting or sculpture. So what do you usually do as a conservator is you walk into your gallery or into your storage facility and with visual examination you will probably be able to tell if the work is in a stable enough condition to be sent out on loan. Imagine you receive a loan request for an ambitious video wall. You will walk into your storage facility and you will open boxes with playback equipment, with media, with cables and with monitors without putting it together and without performing it, you know nothing about the work. And that is really the key difference that's the works in our care need to be performed, to be shown, but also need to be performed so we can actively conserve them and can also perform risk assessment and conservation treatments moving forward.
[00:03:09] Ben: What a phenomenal summarization. I'm gonna send that to my parents and maybe they'll understand what I do now. Now, with all of that laid as a foundation, let's dive into Christina's story and as usual, we'll start from the beginning.
[00:03:19] Christine: I grew up in, um, the most uninteresting and unimportant part of Germany, I would say. I remember myself sitting in art classes and I know that my classmates were able to capture something quickly in a drawing and they did it brilliantly. And I was sitting there and, you know, scrabbling around and it took me hours and hours and hours, and I couldn't really create something great. So I think my art teacher noticed that I was patient enough to copy something. I was patient enough to go into the techniques, but that there was not much creativity in me. So he recommended that I should maybe check out a local museum and see if I can intern with them. And I did. So I was interning with the local museum after school and got to know the different departments in that almost slightly encyclopedic museum. So I started off in the archeology department cleaning and scrubbing broken parts of ceramics and putting accession numbers on bones. I was working in the bookbinding department and so was learning how to bind books. And then I ended up working with the paintings conservator for awhile, and that really created my interest to become a conservator. So in a way I was really grateful for this advice by my art teacher at the time, because right after high school, I was really committed that this is going to be my profession of choice.
So I became a traditionally trained paintings and sculpture conservator first and technically I got employed after finishing my training in 1992 at the Wallraf-Richartz Museum slash Museum Ludwig first. And this was, technically two museums that were covering a wide range of artworks and many, many centuries of artwork.
So the Wallraf-Richartz Museum holds a collection of artworks from the 13th century to the 19th century and the Museum Ludwig's a collection for modern and contemporary art 20 and 21st century grew out of the Wallraf-Richartz Museum as a department of modern art first, but due to the fact that the collection was growing so fast and, Mr and Mrs. Ludwig were supporting the museum so much with so many, many important loans, like the Picasso collections of Russian avant-garde collection, but also, uh, the pop-art collection and the media collection, which was fast growing in the late eighties and nineties. The museum somewhat grew out of their location that was home for both institutions and with a donation of eighty Picassos in the mid, late nineties a condition was attached that the Wallraf-Richartz will move out into a newly built location and the museum will become entirely available for the Museum Ludwig. And it was at set point of time, that also the conservation department were split into two departments, one serving the Wallraf-Richartz Museum, and the other one serving the Museum Ludwig and at that point in time, I became head of conservationat the Museum Ludwig, because I already had a very obvious interest, more in modern and contemporary art other than traditional art. But at that point in time, I didn't have a formal training in time-based media conservation. So I've found myself standing in front of the Brandenburg Gate video installation that is composed of 215 CRTs by Nam June Paik and I was scratching my head a lot and asking myself, how could my skillset potentially translate into the care of those works?
I was traveling with an artwork, Soundings by Robert Rauschenberg also from 1968, this is a light kinetic installation that was also conceived by Experiments in Art and Technologies, the artist and engineer collaboration. So Soundings is, a 30 feet wide installation about three feet deep and about seven feet high. And it consists of plexi panels and the front panel is mirrored. the panels behind show silk screens, black and white silk screens of chairs in different angles. On top of piece are eight microphones behind the work are light bulbs and there's a control unit. So if you walk into the room with Sounding silently, it's usually shown in the dark room, you will see nothing but the mirror image of yourself. If you start clapping your hands, if you start singing, if you start making any noise, talking, the microphones, picking up the audio intake of the human voice, splitting it into four frequency bands and then activating individual light bulbs from behind, which is basically luminating the piece from behind. But the key factor here is the work is sensitive to different ranges of the human voice. So different voices will activate different visual impressions. So the artwork is literally talking to you. And when I was installing the piece during the Rauschenberg retrospective in New York in 97 prior to be a media conservator in, in those days, I realized that a simple misfiring can entirely destroy the sensitiveness of the piece and this is a moment in time when I realized that, wow, there's a strong need to conserve these works. And of course they did come with very, very little documentation in those days, I just realized if there is no specialty focusing it in conservation there will be an entire category of media artworks there will be centuries that are potentially lost of cultural heritage. And that was a moment in time when I turned around and decided no there are many paintings and sculpture conservators in the world, I have to become a media conservator and I have to really spend my life saving those works. And this is where I got excited and learned about the program that became available in Bern in Switzerland for the conservation of modern materials and media as a first of its kind really in the world and so I went there and graduated from there and ever since this is what I do.
[00:10:02] Ben: Wow. What was that program like at the time that you went?
[00:10:05] Christine: It was early days of the program so I was in the third class that entered a newly, founded program. It was certainly pioneering at that point in time but also of course was, and now I know it myself establishing a new program, it really takes a village. So I give huge credit to those who pioneered it and who identified the need early on. The program was founded in 1998, really in the early days of media art. And it was run by very dedicated individuals and still is by Dr. Stefan Wülfert who is a conservation scientist and the head of school school and in those days when I was there, Johannes Gfeller was a professor for media arts, but it's important to mention that the program was really focusing on both modern materials\ and media, and this was based on the fact that now let's face it in it's the early days of analog media what were analog media made of? Synthetic organic polymers. So it came in handy to have some basic knowledge on plastics and their degradation and conservation and treatments passed. So classes were really centered around both modern materials and media in those days. As you can imagine, of course, we were very much focusing on analog media at the time and the lab was slowly developing. The school already had a strength in uh the natural science. So the lab for instrumental analysis was fully developed, but the labs for media conservation were still under development. And that was a blessing in a way too, because students were also really involved in building, those, facilities. And I again, want to give the professors huge credit for pioneering this program and building it. And I think they have done really amazing work over there and still do so.
The classes were delivered in modules and I think they still are. And modules means that you were focusing on one subject for an entire week, let's say electric and electronic components in contemporary art. So you were taking classes, you had hands on workshops for an entire week, and then there was an exam at the end of the week. So you were really focusing on one subject, over the course of the week. And then you were collecting those credits over time by completing those modules that were necessary to gain a solid foundation of both the conservation of modern materials, as well as media art. I was fortunate enough that the Museum Ludwig gave me a leave in order to complete that program. So I was still somewhat holding down that position and went back and forth between Bern and Cologne and since they were teaching in modules I was able to do so, but again, the museum gave me a leave for an extended period of time in order to do so.
My main motivation to come to the US was basically for personal reasons. It was a really crazy decision because I felt like I probably had one of the most interesting if not the most interesting jobs in Germany at that time. So, uh, it was a really, really tough decision to let that go but again, the museum even gave me another three year leave in order to do so they really left a door open for me to return. I can't tell you how grateful I am to that institution they have been really, really flexible as they really supported me as a really understood that I was driven by the idea of media conservation and I had to turn to it and really had to devote my energy to it. So, yeah, the director of the museum saw the opportunities that I could really expand my newly acquired knowledge that I gained in Bern and apply it in one of the most vibrant and interesting cities when it comes to contemporary art. So they supported the idea that I will leave for three years, which was a timeline that was basically fixed by the visa that you receive as a foreigner. So I wasn't certain at a time if I will stay permanently since this was really dependent on the visa conditions in those days so we agreed on the fact that the museum let me go for three years and then it was probably the hardest part in my entire professional life. When I had to sign the resignation letter and I decided to stay here in the US even though I didn't really fully find my way in those early days. The job market wasn't really established. So there was no time-based media position. So, I was working with the conservator in private practice at that time who was dedicated to expand in that field, but that didn't happen, which was nobody's fault really. There was one major influence in those days and that was working with the electronic media group of the American Institute for Conservation.
The electronic media group or short EMG is a specialty group within the American Institute for conservation and the American Institute for Conservation is our umbrella organization for art conservators. And I believe, roughly consists of 3,500 conservator within, um, the US and the Electronic Media Group was formed as an interest group first in the late nineties before formally became a specialty group. And the pioneers in the US who envisioned this new specialty as a strong need within our profession, where really Paul Messier who also was instrumental in turning the subject of the general session of the annual meeting of the American Institute for Conservation in Philadelphia in 2000 into the subject of electronic media art. He together with Mona Jimenez also organized the pioneering symposium Tech Archeology, which was held at, SF MoMA at the location of an exhibition by and media collectors Kramlich. And so this conference was attended by 25 invited guests who were closely examining the media artworks on view, and that really set the basis for building the blocks and the conceptual framework of what time-based media as a special ty later developed. So that really created the interest in the US to launch a new specialty. And interestingly enough, simultaneously around 2000, the same happened in Germany. I remember myself sitting in the VDR which is short for Verband der Restauratoren or organization for conservators in Germany, during a meeting for the modern art specialty group, which was just launched some years before. And there was the discussion around the effects that we also really needed a new specialty for media arts, which was also launched around that time. So I would say it was really in the late nineties, very early two thousands, when the need for a new specialty was identified.
So I became chair of the electronic media group I think in 2008 and was serving for two terms. And that was really my forum to apply my interest and my passion, but also to see this newly formed membership of, I think in those days, maybe like 20 to 50 people and all of them came from adjacent fields since was as we know, no formal training in time-based media conservation at that time. So those were really easy early days when you attended an AIC meeting and say, there were like 15 or 20 people in the room joining the Electronic Media Group and they were like three talks. So it was a really small, but, a fast emerging group the membership was also extremely dedicated and they were eager to receive continuing education. So as they were asking for training, of course, and I thought in those days that yes since there is no formal training available at that time so of course it should be the professional organizations who should fills a gap and provides that. And so I was fortunate enough to be surrounded by extremely dedicated and active board members in those days. And this is when the conference series tech focus was launched
[00:19:19] Ben: Where you having the opportunity to work on time-based media art in the context of your day job, at what was the name of the private practice where you were?
[00:19:25] Christine: It was called Kramner art group. I was working a little bit on media art, but again, the specialty wasn't really established and not known that much in those days, but I clearly remember working on Zen For TV, at that time. I remember working on a work like Heart Beats Dust, which is an interactive artwork by John Dupree and was actually the winning entry of a competition said the pioneering organization, EAT Experiments in Art and Technology, launched in 1968 that early. And you probably know the publication of the exhibition The Machine that was organized by Pontus Hulten at MoMA. So, Pontus Hulten invited, the collaboration of artists and engineers EAT Experiments and Art and Technology to create a competition and invite artists and engineers to submit proposals for artworks. And we are in the timeline of 1968 here so it was really early days of artists collaborating with engineers and getting excited about including technology to their pallet. So the curator had reserved one room to show these new submissions of artworks and they got an overwhelming response of 250 submissions and they were all so creative and inspiring that say decided to show those works in a different institution. In those days you could probably still makes this happen on short notice to find facilities to do so. So another exhibition was launched Some More Beginnings in the Brooklyn Museum. So this is a long way to circle back to, uh, the fact that Heartbeats Dust by Jean Dupuy was the winning entry of this competition and why I was fortunate enough to work on it and learn about it when I was approached by a gallerist who wanted to curate a show centered around media art, or in those days we were using the term electronic media. So he told me about this artwork and he told me about the fact that he was advised by engineers, that it should probably migrate it to something digital. And this was a moment when I decided, um, you know, what. I don't think that's a good idea. And I'm going to help you out here.
Heart Beats Dust is an artwork that is basically built into a tall black pedestal. So imagine, a, black pedestal that is about seven feet high, about 30 by 30 inches, in square. The top of the pedestal has a vitrine. So there's a window opening. And on top of the pedestal is a theatre light that creates a cone of light, which is visible to the viewer through the window. Opening on the bottom of the window. Opening is a red pigment that is Lithol Rubine pigment, which is known for its very low, specific weight. And for its ability to stay sustained in the air. Under the pigment is a rubber membrane, under the rubber membrane is a speaker, the speaker is connected to an amplifier, the amplifier is connected to an electronic stethoscope, the visitor places the electronic stethoscope on your heart and your heartbeat is amplified creating the rubber membrane to vibrate due to the interaction of the amplitude with the speaker. And this in result throws the pigment into the cone of light. Heart Beats Dust.
It's a pretty beautiful work. And again, it was created and conceived in 1968. So really in the early innocent days of the marriage and the intersection of art and technology as such, there was no documentation about the work. So, when I first examined it in a sub-basement on Broadway, I identified all the components and when connecting the components, I wasn't able to create a clear, um, audio signal and it took a while to figure out what happened beside the fact that over the times the Lithol Rubine red pigment was getting a little bit clunky due to exposure to high humidity. So it lost its ability to really sustain in the air. So I was looking into sources to, find new dry Lithol Rubine pigment, but more importantly there was no clear audio intake that could be created with the equipment that was still available in that clearly looked original. So it took me a while to look into the frequency that our heart is producing. Which is actually operating between 50 and 450 hz. A commercially available amplifier is operating between 20 and 20,000 Hertz. So it became obvious that some preamplification must've been necessary. So I looked up, the make and model of the electronic stethoscope and was searching for contemporary preamplifier that were used with those electronic stethoscopes and it showed up believe it or not in an online auction and I was able to purchase it and once connected to the work. I was able to create a clear audio intake and with the now added Lithol Rubine pigment I could also really create the motion that was necessary to have the pigment being sustained in the cone of light. I also was fortunate enough to meet the artist afterwards who was very, very pleased with the treatment and then a film crew came to New York to document his lifetime achievements and his oeuvre and of course Heart Beats Dust was part of it. So we both were while discussing the treatment and also Jean Dupuy talked about the creation of the piece in front of the installed work and so we both used our heart to activate it.
[00:26:06] Ben: That Is such an incredible story, especially because, this is such an archetypical time-based media conservation treatment story. One of the unique things about our field is that you have these cases where it, you know, somebody brings the piece to you and it can seem as though, oh, well, you know, it just came right out of the box and here I have the instructions and here I have the equipment, but there can very easily just be like a piece of equipment that went missing and it was never documented in the instructions. So it doesn't work and it's not clear why and so, after heartbeat, dust, Eventually you go into private practice and you start your own company with your partner, Reinhard Bek. Where did you and Reinhard meet and what really inspired you both to go into private practice?
[00:26:50] Christine: It's funny that you're asking where we met, because we can't remember. We believe it was in southern Germany at the Vitra design museum. That was, a location where a conferences on the subject of the conservation of modern materials were organized in those days. So we believe it was there but we both put our finger down and really determine the date and location where we met. However, our profession, especially in Germany was really small so everybody working in contemporary art really knew each other in those days. So Reinhard was working as a fellow. He's an expert in kinetic art at MoMA in and he also decided to come to the US for personal reasons. And so we identified, that we have complementing skill sets given that he's also an objects conservator and media conservator by training and I came from this painting background. So between the two of us, we can really cover a variety of materials, that are comprised of different materials and technologies.
So we also were aware that at that point in time we didn't know of any private practice really specializing in time-based media art so we decided, even though we both didn't have a private practice and we weren't quite experienced in terms of entrepreneurship, we decided to join forces and really focus at what we call the conservation of technology based art. We were somewhat overwhelmed in the early days because immediately we got so many requests from a lot of museums, a lot of private collectors, but also artists. So we clearly saw that there was a need for time-based video conservation. A majority of our clients were museums who didn't have dedicated media conservators in those days, as well as collectors in need for time with media conservation and also artists who turn to us and artist foundations. Still we are working with a lot of artists who also consult with us to look into materials and technologies and their sustainability before they really use it as an active material to create their artwork. So this was probably a little bit different from most of our colleagues who mainly receive artworks, conserve them, and then they send them back out to the world. So with our clients, we really work with them on a more, permanent basis. So most of our clients we have established a working relationship of over the long, long period of time, because as you very well know, Ben, time is media artworks will not survive if only treated once they need constant care and attention so therefore it works well for our clients and us to establish this long-term relationship to sustainably care for their collections.
[00:29:56] Ben: So around the same time that you and Reinhart started your private practice, you also started teaching at NYU and this has really developed over the years. You and your colleagues have now started the first, ever in the US, conservation program with time-based media as a specialization. I'm curious if you could tell us a bit about the program and you know, how that came to be and what the program is like.
[00:30:23] Christine: I started teaching, at the Conservation Center, NYU in so I was, organizing courses around the subject of first contemporary art and the modern materials and time-based media art. And in 2016 thanks to the Andrew W Mellon foundation we were able to submit a grant to outline a planning phase to establish a new curriculum for time-based media art conservation. At the Conservation Center Institute of Fine Arts New York University. So the planning grant was received in 2016 and really enabled us to look at the status quo of time-based media, art conservation internationally. So it enabled us to travel to the few existing programs worldwide, but also to visit established time-based media conservation departments worldwide and to discuss with our peers and our colleagues how a time-based mediaconservation program could become part of the larger curriculum of conservation education at the conservation center. So we were fortunate to have this two year planning phase, where we were working with a working group and a group of advisors to identify the skill sets that are needed to become a fully rounded conservator specializing in time-based media art, but also having acquired knowledge in material science, instrumental analysis and other disciplines that are required to become a fully rounded conservator of contemporary art. So over the years we discussed how the skill sets that were identified can best be translated into the building blocks of teaching and if they can be best taught in a lecture setting in a seminar setting in a hands on workshop, or if they can be best acquired during internships. And so we built this curriculum with our advisors, around the existing curriculum, but we're also able to establish, additional opportunities as adjust to the lectures and seminars it's the students are taking at the center. So we were also fortunate enough to offer workshops and public lecture series that are open to pose our dear fellow time-based media colleagues, but also to our body of students. And we like this format where, our fellow colleagues are basically learning alongside our students, because this is providing an opportunity where students can get to know their peers early on.
And our colleagues bring in real world scenarios in that learning environment. So over the years we have developed this curriculum, which was launched officially in 2018 and our first, graduate, graduated in earlier this year, Taylor Healey. And we usually accept about, two students per year so it's a really small program, which is highly, highly flexible and can also respond to the interests of students to a certain degree, which is a really nice quality of the conservation center as a whole, because it offers the opportunity to take elective courses. It offers opportunities to take individualized instruction. So if you have, for example, an express interest in performances, you are encouraged to pursue this interest and the conservation center will try to match you with an instructor who can supervise your project. Um also unique to this program at least in the U S is that students receive a dual degree. So students receive an MA in art history and an MS in conservation science. That's the reason why it's a four year program, but they uh really come out as both art historians and have received fully rounded conservation training, including Within the time-based media program at the conservation center we also really have seen that students come in with varying interests and some of them have broader interests, too, not entirely focused on time-based media, but also maybe photography or objects conservation. And so we allow this to happen, we even encourage it. Since when you work with ambitious installations you may face other materials under your care. So it really is beneficial to have a broader knowledge in material science and instrumental analysis and inorganic and organic materials as a whole. However, so now that we are approaching the fourth year of the establishment of the curriculum now is the time to look at it and review it and see where modifications, um, need to be applied to see what we really liked as a deliverable for the curriculum and where we can even build on that strength. So now it's really a good time to take a step back and review what has been established in the next four years. And it's a little early to talk about it, but we are planning to do so in late spring in order to discuss this with a wider audience, but also to have our students present and give them a voice how they have developed over time and where they are now going within the newly established field. So it's really also going to be a forum for even pre-program students and emerging professionals, graduates as well as, established conservators in the field. So we are planning to review this on a larger scale.
Stay tuned, will be announced soonish. With regard to the other programs and their foci, the MIAP program, the Moving Image Archiving and Preservation Program under the umbrella of the New York university also has done pioneering work with out a question and really also has strongly served the library and archives field but also the art field over time and was out them I don't know where we would be. So the MIAP program has really, really identified needs early on and, has trained a very, very, very skilled and wonderful professionals and colleagues who also work in our field and I think it needs all of us. And it's good to see that there are more educational opportunities. I also want to mention the programs abroad that have narrowed their foci over time. Like in Bern the work that has been carried out there over the last 20 years already is really amazing and they will also take a moment to look at and revisit the last 20 years to see how the field as a whole has evolved and shaped and how's, this has translated into education. So that's all to say that it came a long way, but it's nice to see from the early days when we were really uncertain, how to grasp and form the field that there have been a lot of activities, approaches, conferences, educational opportunities, and now even degrees that have served the field thanks to so, so many dedicated and pioneering colleagues.
Working with students who come from different backgrounds is something that I highly enjoy, but it's also equally challenging, I would say. Class that I'm teaching is a foundation class for time-based media art, where I encourage students from literally every graduate program within NYU to join. So this is based on the fact that our field is so highly collaborative and I would like this to start at day one. And I also feel like since our field is so new, we can only benefit from those individuals who come in with different skill sets and different backgrounds, because let's face it. This is when innovation can happen when you group people with different perspective. So I encourage students from, other disciplines and so far we have had engineering students. We of course have art history, students, museum studies, art administration, but I would love to see more students from computer science, more students from the engineering field and other fields, in undergraduate studies. Since we are all surrounded by media we are all have Different skills that are contribute to media. We all use it on a daily basis. So having a dialog with students from different backgrounds is really one of the most enjoyable, but also challenging tasks within education. Seeing students developing and then landing fellowships and permanent positions is probably one of the most revalidating aspects.
[00:40:12] Ben: So Christina Frohnert what is coming next for you?
[00:40:17] Christine: That is a good question. I would like to know myself. Certainly is a pandemic had made me think about what I would like to do next and where I want to bundle my activities and where I would like to focus on. This may be potentially silly, but I'm going to mention it anyway I'm also slightly transitioning during the week from art conservation to environmental conservation during the weekend. I'm not going to leave the field but I sometimes think about what is the most pressing tasks surrounding our world and I can't really fully isolate myself from the pressing issues that are centered around environmental conservation. Not that I have the skillset or the trainings that I can contribute to it, but I'm engaging in a local project on a little island where I live in Long Island Sound, where we're trying to reestablish the natural oysters in order to build natural, oyster reefs but also to reintroduce oysters in the local waters to clean the waters. So every oyster filters about 50 gallons of water and this has been a really rewarding activity during the weekends to engage with the community and to learn about your immediate surrounding and getting to know your immediate surrounding. So you find me at six in the morning on a boat, circumnavigating the island and performing water quality measurements with my dear fellow project members and so we're really building knowledge about our immediate environment and that has been extremely meaningful to me. Again, I'm not going to leave the field but I'm just expanding my horizons a little bit and see a huge value in engaging with your community and if you look at our lives and our challenges that we are facing, I think it's also really important to engage in education in terms of environmental conservation and in a way, our project is probably really most important to engage with the local kids in the community to make sure that the mess that we have created as a generation is hopefully going to be improved in the future.
[00:42:46] Ben: Oh my gosh. I love that. Is there any advice that you would like to give for somebody who's interested in becoming a time-based media conservator?
[00:42:54] Christine: Well, I guess being curious and staying flexible and being interested in lifetime learning is certainly something that comes as a huge plus, as new technologies are developed as we speak and artists will always be ahead of us before we can even think about developing concepts, how to preserve them it's really engaging and it's really inspiring. And again, it's centered around, constant learning. So if you are interested to become a conservator of contemporary art or more specifically time-based media, hopefully this will appeal to you. Also besides the hard skills that you will learn equally important is for the future time-based media conservator that they have very strong, soft skills and very strong communicators as you will work in a highly collaborative environment and have to communicate with different individuals from other fields of engineering of computer science or neon technician, AV engineers. So we certainly can't have the knowledge all by ourselves. So we are highly, highly dependent on this collaborative spirit that also makes our community so wonderful. It's really a community of sharing. It is a very, very, very rewarding profession. So if you're open-minded, if you're curious, if you want to dive into really ambitious research questions, and if you are not afraid of also performing very detailed and ambitious documentation, the field is for you.
[00:44:41] Ben: Well, Christine Frohnert thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
[00:44:46] Christine: Thanks so much for having me
[00:44:47] Ben: And thank you, dear listener for joining me for this week's conversation with Christine Frohnert. If you enjoy today's episode, please consider supporting the show by heading on over to artandobsolescence.com/donate, where you can make a tax deductible donation through the New York Foundation for the Arts. If you're not in a place to donate, I hope you'll consider leaving a review. It really helps other people to discover the show. And a hot tip if you are a Spotify listener, they just rolled out ratings. So you can leave us a review there. And as always, if you want to keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram, you can find us @artobsolescence. Thanks again so much for listening friends. My name is Ben Fino-radin and this has been Art and Obsolescence.